Broken Mini Cooper

"Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell." (oppisitelock)
12/11/2014 at 12:36 • Filed to: None

I was chatting to a guy at uni and he said his 2003 Mini Cooper wouldn't start. He lived close to me so I offered to take a look at it for him. The electrics all seem to have full power but when you try and turn it over you can just hear clicking (which I believe is just the relay?) but the starter doesn't move at all. Also the driver's window starts edging down for some reason.

Usually a non starting car is the battery but I'm not so sure. From what I've seen even a half dead battery will at least get a bit of movement out of the starter, especially when the electrics seem to work. My and my grandad's theory is a stuck starter motor (it's behind the exhaust manifold so I couldn't hit it with anything to try and dislodge it which has worked for me in the past) so I'm going to tell him to rock the car in gear and then try to start it.

Any ideas guys?

DISCUSSION (52)

Bandit > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:37

I've been in that situation. It's the battery. I tried to help a friends girlfriend with her mini and it was giving the same symptoms, so I guessed it was the starter but nope, the battery just needed a quick jump.

TheHondaBro > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:40

Here's what I found on a forum post :

If the battery load-tested well, then a failing solenoid in your starter fits the rest of the symptoms perfectly, especially the time when you jumped the car and it still wouldn't turn over on the first try. Try this - the next time the car won't start, give the starter motor a few good whacks with a length of pipe, a rubber mallet, or a lead-faced hammer and see if that allows it to start. If it works, it's obviously only a temporary fix, but it will be one more indication that it's the starter solenoid (which is an integral part of the starter motor in the MINI, rather than a separate component like it used to be in older cars).

From what it looks like, the starter motor needs to be replaced?

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Bandit
12/11/2014 at 12:42

Interesting, the car will start from a push start but wont from charging with a battery tender. Seems like different symptoms than most cars with a dying battery.

These Minis seem like trouble to be honest. The valve cover is leaking like a sieve and the clutch went at 60k (it's at 70k now).

TDogg > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:42

Sounds like a starter issue. I had the same clicking, no turning over earlier this year with my Taurus. I had gotten a new battery shortly before, so I assumed that wasn't an issue. Got a starter from the junkyard and I was good to go.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:43

If it makes a noticeable single click from the engine, it's the starter solenoid. Is it like a continuous click coming from the dashboard, or just once from the engine?

Did you try boosting it? My mother's odyssey had a continuous click ever since someone broke into it and left the door open which in turn drained the battery.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > TheHondaBro
12/11/2014 at 12:43

That's what I was thinking. I tried to hit the starter with something but it's hidden beneath the exhaust manifold and the car was too low to climb under.

Too many M's > Bandit
12/11/2014 at 12:44

What he said ^^^^ Battery for sure.

Bandit > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:44

Hmm, now that is interesting. That atypical response is why it threw me off originally. It was like everything in the car was working perfectly except the starter so I didn't think it would be the battery. I guess try tapping the starter with a hammer to fix it temporarily.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:45

It might just be the connection to the battery. I've had that happen before where I installed my battery and just got clicks until I tightened it down.

Tekamul > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:46

Sounds like a dead battery. Could be the leads, but that is the classic sound of not enough cranking current. Usually if the starter is frozen, you don't get the steady clicking.

A volt meter would tell you immediately, if you can get your hands on one.

camaroboy68ss > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:46

Battery is just bad at this point. Had this problem with my 68 Camaro. I could jump it and get it fired but never to take a charge.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:47

Sounds to me like what you figured with the bad solenoid in the starter. If the starter is that much of a PITA to even get to and hit with a hammer, it might behoove him to change it asap.

Too many M's > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:47

I still say battery.

Is it cold out? What's the age on the battery? If it is stored outside the battery might not have enough CCAs to turn it over. Just charging from a tender wouldn't be enough if it's dying. If there's a peak jump setting then you could try that.

camaroboy68ss > TheHondaBro
12/11/2014 at 12:48

You could just replace the solenoid if it's possible. That's what pushes the gear into the flywheel/flex plate to turn the motor over.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > TDogg
12/11/2014 at 12:48

Thanks for the input, seems to back up what I was thinking.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Tekamul
12/11/2014 at 12:49

I have one but I didn't have it on me at the time. He said a garage checked the battery for him a couple weeks ago and it was okay.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Too many M's
12/11/2014 at 12:53

Yeah it's been between 0 and 5 degrees celsius for a couple weeks. I told him to try rocking the car in gear since that'll dislodge the starter if it's jammed, if not he'll get a new battery.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
12/11/2014 at 12:53

I checked all the connections and stuff, they're solid.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy
12/11/2014 at 12:54

A continuous click. Yeah he's tried charging the battery a few times, all that works is push starting it.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Bandit
12/11/2014 at 12:55

I'm getting him to rock the car in gear to dislodge the starter. It's hard to reach it to hit it with something.

Bandit > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 12:58

I know, BMW were massive assholes when they designed that engine bay.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:00

Yeah, that's the standard fix/test for this problem.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Bandit
12/11/2014 at 13:00

Tell me about it. The nose is about twice the length of my car's and it has that big clamshell hood so I thought "great I'll be able to work on this pretty easily." Nope.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:00

"he's tried charging the battery a few times"

Always possible the battery is dead enough not to hold much charge.

Bandit > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:01

I still am personally going to guess battery though. Have you tried old fashioned jumper cables yet?

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 13:02

Agreed, I just found it strange that it can power the full beams but not even budge the starter.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Bandit
12/11/2014 at 13:04

Yeah he has, it worked a week ago but wont now. I am thinking more battery now, I just wanted to make sure he didn't pay up for a battery and find out it's a buggered starter motor since we had a car that had full electrical power to lights and stuff but wouldn't crank at all and it turned out to be the starter.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:08

Full beams must use around 50-100 watts, or thereabouts, so need to draw maybe 10 amps of current from the battery. The starter motor for a Mini Cooper draws (ATG) 150 amps, in a 12v system, so that's 1800 watts.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 13:12

Interesting info. I knew a starter motor needed to draw more current but didn't know it was that much more. I'm not so great with electrical stuff.

deekster_caddy > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:18

Agree with this theory - often if there is low voltage the starter relay won't stay engaged. Did you try jumper cables?

deekster_caddy > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:20

Starter motor is a massive load, and why a battery has a "CCA" rating. CCA stands for Cold Cranking Amps, or the maximum you can draw from the battery at one time. It should far exceed what the starter motor needs. Lights are nothing. Lights are useful to see if the battery has a little bit of juice (dim lights) and if you have the jumper cables hooked up right (dim goes to bright)...

Tekamul > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:22

A couple weeks can be a long time. What is the weather there? If it wasn't CCA tested, a drop in temp can make a big difference

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:24

I'm not as good with it as I should be - which is why watts are in my comment. I'm used to thinking about lights in terms of wattage, but really what's relevant is the current draw. It was only once I looked up the current and worked out the power that I realised it was the current which matters.

I was a bit surprised by the current draw of the starter, too - until I worked it out as power, at which point it immediately sounded about right. (1 hp is ~750 watts.)

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 13:39

I did some basics on electronics in 1st year of my degree but besides that (which I've mostly forgotten anyway) it rarely comes up.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Tekamul
12/11/2014 at 13:40

Weather is pretty cold. My car sat for a week and needed a couple more cranks than usual to start today so it is likely his battery was affected.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > deekster_caddy
12/11/2014 at 13:41

Thanks for the info.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 13:50

Yeah, apart from electronics GCSE, which basically meant blowing up capacitors with the bench supply, at least for me, my limit is P=IV and V=IR.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Bandit
12/11/2014 at 13:57

I had the exact same symptoms on my Z4. The battery was completely shot, and wouldn't take a charge.

Needs a new battery most likely

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 13:59

I did nothing throughout any of my GCSEs really. My school started using supply teachers for nearly every class and it slipped towards anarchy from there...

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 14:05

Well, I didn't have supply teachers, but still never did any work. The bizarre thing was that the electronics teacher was the only really shit one in the school, so when he didn't teach anyone anything they needed to know for the exam, I got the best grade in the class because I was used to going into exams without knowing the syllabus :)

and 100 more > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 14:13

[redacted for being dumb]

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 14:15

Our school was a complete mess so I got used to messing about in lessons then buying books that covered the syllabus and reading them the day before exams. Got 4 A*s that way...

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 14:27

Hey, they were GCSEs. You could get enough marks for an A* just through having good exam technique, for the most part, at least when I did them.

The one truly impressive exam performance I remember was the guy in my year who somehow managed to score significantly less than 25% on a 4-option multiple choice science paper. A monkey would have got a better grade just filling in random answers.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 14:30

Yeah you could, good marks weren't hard. I remember getting 99/100 in a Physics exam without revising.

I had people fail a maths paper at my school which included the question "how long is this line, use a ruler for measurement."

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 14:36

Only 99%? Thicko. (100% would make you a swot...)

What a waste of bloody time that all was. I walked away from A levels about two weeks into the second year, then went back at the end for the final exams without picking up a book - and still got good enough grades to have gone to decent universities if I'd wanted to. I think I got asked about them in maybe one job interview since. Total waste of time., no-one gives a shit in the real world as long as you're good at the job.

Unless you want to be a certified professional, in which case you have to jump through the hoops before you can start claiming your rent.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 14:51

I had to work at my A levels actually, maths was especially difficult. That said I had to make decent grades to get into my engineering degree.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 15:01

I have to say, engineering is one of the few things I ever considered actually interesting enough to be worth studying for. The money from real work was more interesting, though, and overall it's been much more lucrative than taking the time to get qualified.

Funnily enough, my sister has the best degree and qualifications in my family, but is the lowest paid of all of us because she decided to become a teacher.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 15:16

I was better at English than I was anything else but engineering seemed like the smarter pick for getting a job afterwards. Employment around where I live is hard to come by so I opted to do a degree.

I couldn't be a teacher, I don't have the patience.

davedave1111 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/11/2014 at 15:59

It helps living in London, but somehow I've always found that jobs are never hard to come by if you actually get up and make some opportunities for yourself.

"I couldn't be a teacher, I don't have the patience."

That's what I said about being a doctor.

*bdum-tsh*

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > davedave1111
12/11/2014 at 16:13

Kinja'd!!!

KirkyV > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
12/13/2014 at 16:53

(My BMW MINI hate is fed by this knowledge. Good. Gooooood.)

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > KirkyV
12/13/2014 at 17:10

It's strange because I've never spent time around a new Mini before and I found myself liking the interior a lot, but hating the mechanical side of it more than I already did. 100% a style over substance car.

If anyone asked me if they should buy one I'd probably say; only if you buy it new and sell it when the warranty runs out.